Firearms rights in the US

[willowtigger]

Agreed, the US really needs to do something about their gun problems, but it's so ingrained in the culture that it's nearly impossible to have a rational debate with people about it, let alone find a workable solution. It just goes in extremes. They'll never take my guns away, etc...

its one of the amendment things i believe

amendment number 507 or whatever idk how many there are

the right to bear arms

first time i heard that i thought they literally had the arms from bears in the house ........

 

[PGen98]

its one of the amendment things i believe

amendment number 507 or whatever idk how many there are

the right to bear arms

first time i heard that i thought they literally had the arms from bears in the house ........

Second amendment of the US Constitution, the right to bear arms that was previously in order to form a militia; however, these days is interpreted as including for home defense, though is supposed to exclude "dangerous and unusual weapons," which to me these days is basically any firearm, particularly those of an automatic or semi-automatic nature. So those people going around carrying assault rifles for "protection" just scare the daylights out of me. No idea what they think they need them for.

 

[Lee]

Second amendment of the US Constitution, the right to bear arms that was previously in order to form a militia; however, these days is interpreted as including for home defense, though is supposed to exclude "dangerous and unusual weapons," which to me these days is basically any firearm, particularly those of an automatic or semi-automatic nature. So those people going around carrying assault rifles for "protection" just scare the daylights out of me. No idea what they think they need them for.

I find the whole American gun culture terrifying to be honest. What people need weaponry like that for, I will never understand.

 

[Deleted member 324]

I find the whole American gun culture terrifying to be honest. What people need weaponry like that for, I will never understand.

It's not based on need. It's a right. You don't "need" free speech either. It's a right. You don't "need" redress. It's a right.

 

[Lee]

It's not based on need. It's a right. You don't "need" free speech either. It's a right. You don't "need" redress. It's a right.

That doesn't change the fact that I don't understand it. The whole concept of firearm ownership is alien to me. I'm pretty sure its a cultural thing though. It is much harder to purchase a firearm here and handguns are completely illegal.

If you own a gun it must be kept in a locked enclosure and the ammunition must be kept in a separate place.

 

[Deleted member 324]

That doesn't change the fact that I don't understand it. The whole concept of firearm ownership is alien to me.

Understanding it is easy. Just like understanding the rest of the Bill of Rights is easy. Not one "need" is addressed in any of it.

In fact the US Constitution as a whole ONLY protects its citizens from the federal government. Not from one another. Only limits government action. Not private action. So that it's moot whether it's firearms, speech, gatherings or protests, those are protected.

So when we get the lame argument of "the founders and framers couldn't have foreseen machine guns and semiautomatic rifles" the answer is, "Sure enough. And they didn't forsee radio, TV, the internet or social media. But we're not calling for doing away with the 1st Amendment."

Firearms are tools. Same as a roofing hammer for example. If I stove someone's head in with a roofing hammer it became a weapon for that use. The hammer didn't decide it was a weapon. The firearm does not load itself, decide the target, or fire itself. The problem isn't the tools, it's the operators.

And our founders and framers decided that we as a society are responsible enough and can be trusted enough, to keep and bear that particular tool.

 

[Lee]

Making deadly tools readily available surely doesn't help.

If people carry a loaded firearm, they are surely doing so with the intention of using it if required. People don't often carry a hammer around to stove someone's head in.

 

[Deleted member 324]

If people carry a loaded firearm, they are surely doing so with the intention of using it if required. People don't often carry a hammer around to stove someone's head in.

Making deadly tools readily available surely doesn't help.

We should quickly ban automobiles then.
In Texas we have open carry. It's not unusual at all to see people packing. There's very few gun incidents here. In fact the places where you see the MOST firearm incidents are the states with the most strict firearms laws.

Firearms incidents represent a tiny percentage of firearms out there and a tiny percentage of firearms owners. Far, far less than automobile incidents for example. We as a human society have decided that the convenience of automobiles means we accept 200,000 fatalities annually from them. Automobiles aren't even a right, and we're willing to throw away millions of lives to keep them, over the last 100 years.

What you said earlier about firearm ownership being a alien concept to you? There's at least a billion people on earth that ownership of anything at all, is an alien concept.

 

[Lee]

We should quickly ban automobiles then.
In Texas we have open carry. It's not unusual at all to see people packing. There's very few gun incidents here. In fact the places where you see the MOST firearm incidents are the states with the most strict firearms laws.

Firearms incidents represent a tiny percentage of firearms out there and a tiny percentage of firearms owners. Far, far less than automobile incidents for example. We as a human society have decided that the convenience of automobiles means we accept 200,000 fatalities annually from them. Automobiles aren't even a right, and we're willing to throw away millions of lives to keep them, over the last 100 years.

What you said earlier about firearm ownership being a alien concept to you? There's at least a billion people on earth that ownership of anything at all, is an alien concept.

Yup, of course there is. Ownership of anything is absolutely a privilege.

We will have to agree to disagree over gun ownership. You have your views, I have mine.

 

[Deleted member 324]

You have your views

I have given no views or opinion. I've only stated fact.

 

[Lee]

Okay then, I'm going to bow out of this discussion now. I'm not here looking for a debate. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Deleted member 324]

Fear of firearms and fear of police isn't a disorder, it's perfectly rational. It is rational and natural to fear things we don't understand. The way to overcome such fears is, understanding.

 

[Deleted member 324]

It's a right.

And just to expand on this further by way of context - citizens of the US can LOSE their rights! Good example: if you are convicted of a felony in the US your firearms rights are forfeit. If you are then found as a felon in possession of a firearm or even have one within your reach you didn't even know about, you're looking at 5 years in federal prison. On each charge.

So that, if firearms are banned then only criminals will have them. Because we know criminals routinely ignore laws - felon in posession gets procecuted 10s of 1000s of times anually in the US. And anyone who kills another person with malice is by definition a criminal, and the tool he or she uses to do that is certainly irrelevant - whether it's killing 20 people by running them down with a pick-up truck or killing 14 people using a machete. Banning pick-up trucks or machetes would never enter anyone's mind.

 

[safeinsanity]

It simply put is the right to protect ourselves and families from any dangerous insane person, or evil criminal who would like to use deadly force against us. Including a tyrannical government.

 

[willowtigger]

Guns/firearms are only used for one thing though, cars (for example) have another purpose - getting people from one place to another

I admit I would not know what to do with a gun if I had the instruction manual in front of me (do they come with instruction manual?)

 

[Catsmother]

I am against guns, they should not be allowed.

If you bought a gun then what's the purpose of it? I would be terrified if I lived next door to someone that owned a gun.

 

[willowtigger]

I am against guns, they should not be allowed.

If you bought a gun then what's the purpose of it? I would be terrified if I lived next door to someone that owned a gun.

To the best of my (limited about guns) knowledge the only purpose of a gun is to shoot people/animals (like back in the day when if a horse had a broke leg they tended to shoot them to end their suffering)

idk if guns have another purpose other than going BANG and sending a bullet into something

i admit i'm afraid of things that go bang, even my car going over a pothole with a BANG is enough to cause me anxiety

 

[willowtigger]

Making deadly tools readily available surely doesn't help.

If people carry a loaded firearm, they are surely doing so with the intention of using it if required. People don't often carry a hammer around to stove someone's head in.

exactly

if someone carries a hammer around with them (and they are not a builder) and they freely tell everyone its cause they want to use it to break someones skull open then they would quickly get into a troubles

Another example is knives: if someone who is a chef has a load of knives and they are in the kitchen, chopping some meat or veg up, nobody could see a problem with that cause a knife has multiple purposes, yet if they was using a gun to shoot the meat up then people would be asking questions